Headers Help Please

[coolvette]

Ok, guys (and gals) I need help making a decision. Bear with me here, I may be long winded. As with any decision like this, we always want to make sure that whatever product we go with, we will be happy with it in the long term. I have the Corsa X-Treme axleback exhaust without the X-pipe. I am ready to add a full length header system now. I have done some very extensive internet research on different products available which has confused me a great deal. I am brand new to the subject of headers and first and foremost; my fellow mechanics that I work with tell me they are a royal bitch to install. Of course they are refering to their own projects on other cars. Not C5 Vettes specifically. Can the job be done on jackstands in a day? I have read on other forums that others have done it this way but they do not indicate whether they would recommend it or not. Are some brands easier to install than others? What do YOU GUYS have and did YOU do your own installation? They are telling me the hardest part is feeding them up through the bottom and you end up loosening eng. mounts and suspension parts and everything else. I don't know, I've never done a job like this before but i AM a very experienced mechanic with professional tools. Are they full of it? Some of the brands that I have been looking at are the LG Performance headers w/cats. They run about $1300--$1400. I also found a setup from Texas Speed And Performance item#117-6109S for $779.99. It is a full length system w/cats and X-pipe. It is made by Kooks. It Looks like a nice product made out of 304 stainless but it is not polished. So, why so cheap?? Are the cat elements 'gonna burn out prematurely and start rattling and then start throwing codes? If I order this set and install will there be a hindsight drawback where I will say "yeah that's why they were so cheap" Again, I don't know but Kooks is a pretty trusted name out there and so is TSP. Don't want to ramble on too much more. I'm just basically looking for a full length system with cats and 1 3/4" inlet with no surprises on installation and durability for the long run. My Vette (2000 6sp manual) is more of a daily driver. I'm not going for gobs of power in the future either. I just want it to sound "cool". If I gain a little bit of power in the process well then fine. i MIGHT do a cam in the future but I'm not sure. Thanks in advance for your comments.

[c4c5specialist]

HI there,

Truthfully, there are alot of variables to what you are looking at .

Long tube headers will create power from about 3500 to 6000 rpm.
Short tube headers will create better power response and torque down low till about 3500 and then the power is about the same as stock manifolds.

IF your looking for better sound, you might be surprised at the change just by changing to an X pipe and save yourself alot of money.

Long tube headers will NEVER be emission legal UNLESS they utilize the OEM catalytic converters. Hence, they will cause check engine lights in most every case.

Kooks are good quality, BUT the rear most cylinders will burn through spark plug wires more readily because of the close proximity of the tubes to the wires. They also use larger catalysts which reduces the chances of a P0420/430 converter codes.

Installation isnt easy, engine mounts loosened, master cylinder and other parts need to be removed to install these headers. With a lift, its a 6 hour job to do it properly.

As for the others, I havent installed or seen them, so I cannot comment.

Allthebest, c4c5

[ctd]

I've owned a couple of different sets for the C5, LG & AR both catted. Both the LG & AR will go in without loosening the motor mounts or suspension components, I prefer the AR for ease of installation & fit afterword's. By that I mean clearance etc. There are socks available for the plug wires to keep the heat away.

You may need the car quite High so a lift is really easier, then you work underneath or up top much faster.

These two manufacturer's will include adapts to relocate the rear O2's to front location. The rear O2's have built in heaters so that you have proper O2 operation. The rear O2's then can be programed out.

From your description regarding the shop you are talking to.....they don't sound very Corvette friendly. These cars are nice to work on, I think the individual's working on them need to be a little more careful, particular, fussy & willing to educate themselves.....that eliminates many doesn't it. The big hammers & pry bars need to left in the tool box.

I've read some not so nice stories regarding the less expensive headers, so I would be care-full with those. The three more expensive brands discussed in this thread..... there are reason's.

[coolvette]

ctd-----Not sure what you mean here:


"These two manufacturer's will include adapts to relocate the rear O2's to front location. The rear O2's have built in heaters so that you have proper O2 operation. The rear O2's then can be programed out."


What do you mean by the rear O2's being "programed out"? Will I have to get a tuner to turn them off? If so; what about the fuel curve then?

[ctd]

The front sensor's control the fuel trims, they are the critical ones that need to work correctly. When you go to a long tube header & move the O2 sensor further downstream you can affect how the O2 sensor works. The front O2 sensor's need to be hot to oscillate properly.

The rear O2 sensor have heaters built in because they are further downstream, that is the reason they are relocated to the front critical position. The adapter is required to operate the heater, no heaters in the stock front O2 sensors.

Yes your tuner would program out the rear O2's.

[c4c5specialist]

HI there,

And this is where the problems occur.

#1, all 4 positions of oxygen sensors from GM are heated, this has always been with c5.

#2, the rear o2 sensors actually control 25% of the entire fuel trim calculation, so you NEVER EVER want to program the rear o2 sensors out of the equations. But hes not talking about the actual function, he is talking about step 3.

#3. But with aftermarket catalysts, they have to program out the catalyst monitoring diagnostics so that they do not throw the P420/430 codes that occur.

The key is to understand that with every header install, there are issues.

This could be underhood heat, check engine lights or exhaust rattling.

Allthebest, c4c5