Tough cold starting in AM Only ?

[jtward]

I have a LS1 engine that refuses to start on cold mornings. BUT, only started, it runs a pussycat for the remainder of the day. No stumbles, no hesitation, no same morning tough morning cranking, cranking and more cranking. It has fuel and I assume spark, But I was wondering if the ignition switch or the coil packs, but that doesn't make any sense. So what is it when an engine power, but simply refuses to "Catch" it just only turns over and over and after five or ten minutes it will 'Catch' and start. And not return till the next cold morning routine ? I've had it to the dealership but they can't figure it out.

[LLC5]

Originally Posted by jtward

I have a LS1 engine that refuses to start on cold mornings. BUT, only started, it runs a pussycat for the remainder of the day. No stumbles, no hesitation, no same morning tough morning cranking, cranking and more cranking. It has fuel and I assume spark, But I was wondering if the ignition switch or the coil packs, but that doesn't make any sense. So what is it when an engine power, but simply refuses to "Catch" it just only turns over and over and after five or ten minutes it will 'Catch' and start. And not return till the next cold morning routine ? I've had it to the dealership but they can't figure it out.

Fuel pressure and voltage at the battery during cranking would be the place to start. The electrical portion of the ignition switch could be the culprit, but I wouldn't just throw one at it with out verifing that it is bad. What did the dealership test, and what were their findings during their tests?

[jtward]

Originally Posted by LLC5

Fuel pressure and voltage at the battery during cranking would be the place to start. The electrical portion of the ignition switch could be the culprit, but I wouldn't just throw one at it with out verifing that it is bad. What did the dealership test, and what were their findings during their tests?

At the dealership, It started every single day. But this morning, Home with me, Once again it was cranking over, over and over and I gave up after five minutes of trying to start it, but it left one clue, the heavy smell of gasoline. and after 30 minutes of sitting, it fired up after some more cranking ?

[jtward]

Originally Posted by jtward

At the dealership, It started every single day. But this morning, Home with me, Once again it was cranking over, over and over and I gave up after five minutes of trying to start it, but it left one clue, the heavy smell of gasoline. and after 30 minutes of sitting, it fired up after some more cranking ?

Well we found the problem. This car needs as all corvettes need, is a fuel which is/has an octane rating of 91 octane or more. But from it's first few days at the new dealership in New Jersey, and the fact about the ever IMPORTANT owners manual never been read. So during the 7 months it sat, it was given a few gallons of regular fuel for the cold months it sat at the dealership awaiting a new owner.

So there was the nucleus of a even growing problem, Once someone came and took it out on a 39 month lease and once more, NO ONE ever bothered to look up the kind of fuel to use. So for the next 3.5 years the new owners drove the car, and every time it got fueled up it got regular gas. Fast forward to August 1, 2011 when I bought it, Beautiful car and it started every-time, BUT, once the temperature dropped to close to freezing the carbon deposits were so bad the cold valves couldn't close properly. And thus, it wouldn't or should I say couldn't close properly and the act of running ( a new mixture of gasoline and air) was gone. But if in the course day the metal of the engine/head warmed up and the motor fired right up.

So we had a hell of a time, but the problem was carbon build, excessive build up and we had to wait till the afternoon and once it started, the GM Master techs gave it the upper cylinder cleaning and for the next ten thousand miles it will be on a diet of premium fuel with a can of BG44K or Techron from Chevron. I've never seen an actual case of carbon to this degree, but I find this fascinating that this whole problem and it's repair situation could of been prevented IF someone had just opened the glove box and spent ten minutes to get informed about this particular engine's diet ! Crazier than all hell !

[LLC5]

Originally Posted by jtward

Well we found the problem. This car needs as all corvettes need, is a fuel which is/has an octane rating of 91 octane or more. But from it's first few days at the new dealership in New Jersey, and the fact about the ever IMPORTANT owners manual never been read. So during the 7 months it sat, it was given a few gallons of regular fuel for the cold months it sat at the dealership awaiting a new owner.

So there was the nucleus of a even growing problem, Once someone came and took it out on a 39 month lease and once more, NO ONE ever bothered to look up the kind of fuel to use. So for the next 3.5 years the new owners drove the car, and every time it got fueled up it got regular gas. Fast forward to August 1, 2011 when I bought it, Beautiful car and it started every-time, BUT, once the temperature dropped to close to freezing the carbon deposits were so bad the cold valves couldn't close properly. And thus, it wouldn't or should I say couldn't close properly and the act of running ( a new mixture of gasoline and air) was gone. But if in the course day the metal of the engine/head warmed up and the motor fired right up.

So we had a hell of a time, but the problem was carbon build, excessive build up and we had to wait till the afternoon and once it started, the GM Master techs gave it the upper cylinder cleaning and for the next ten thousand miles it will be on a diet of premium fuel with a can of BG44K or Techron from Chevron. I've never seen an actual case of carbon to this degree, but I find this fascinating that this whole problem and it's repair situation could of been prevented IF someone had just opened the glove box and spent ten minutes to get informed about this particular engine's diet ! Crazier than all hell !

Actually, 87 octane fuel promotes less carbon build up than 92 octane fuels do which is the reason that premium fueled vehicles need to be de-carbonized more often than regular fueled vehicles. Carbon build up can be minimized by using a Top Tier fuel (no matter the octane rating, make sure it is a Top Tier fuel) with the BG44K and Techron that you mentioned. Top Tier fuel is a fuel formulation with enhanced cleaning capabilities in either of the octane ratings to help deter carbon build up, not necessarly a better fuel but cleaner for your injectors and engine internals including carbon build up on the backs side of the valves which can create a lean condition. Glad that you found the problem, now go run the hell out of it. :)

[SG Lou]

Originally Posted by jtward

At the dealership, It started every single day. But this morning, Home with me, Once again it was cranking over, over and over and I gave up after five minutes of trying to start it, but it left one clue, the heavy smell of gasoline. and after 30 minutes of sitting, it fired up after some more cranking ?

Isn't it ALWAYS like that ?

Originally Posted by jtward

Well we found the problem. This car needs as all corvettes need, is a fuel which is/has an octane rating of 91 octane or more. But from it's first few days at the new dealership in New Jersey, and the fact about the ever IMPORTANT owners manual never been read. So during the 7 months it sat, it was given a few gallons of regular fuel for the cold months it sat at the dealership awaiting a new owner.

So there was the nucleus of a even growing problem, Once someone came and took it out on a 39 month lease and once more, NO ONE ever bothered to look up the kind of fuel to use. So for the next 3.5 years the new owners drove the car, and every time it got fueled up it got regular gas. Fast forward to August 1, 2011 when I bought it, Beautiful car and it started every-time, BUT, once the temperature dropped to close to freezing the carbon deposits were so bad the cold valves couldn't close properly. And thus, it wouldn't or should I say couldn't close properly and the act of running ( a new mixture of gasoline and air) was gone. But if in the course day the metal of the engine/head warmed up and the motor fired right up.

So we had a hell of a time, but the problem was carbon build, excessive build up and we had to wait till the afternoon and once it started, the GM Master techs gave it the upper cylinder cleaning and for the next ten thousand miles it will be on a diet of premium fuel with a can of BG44K or Techron from Chevron. I've never seen an actual case of carbon to this degree, but I find this fascinating that this whole problem and it's repair situation could of been prevented IF someone had just opened the glove box and spent ten minutes to get informed about this particular engine's diet ! Crazier than all hell !

Originally Posted by LLC5

Actually, 87 octane fuel promotes less carbon build up than 92 octane fuels do which is the reason that premium fueled vehicles need to be de-carbonized more often than regular fueled vehicles. Carbon build up can be minimized by using a Top Tier fuel (no matter the octane rating, make sure it is a Top Tier fuel) with the BG44K and Techron that you mentioned. Top Tier fuel is a fuel formulation with enhanced cleaning capabilities in either of the octane ratings to help deter carbon build up, not necessarly a better fuel but cleaner for your injectors and engine internals including carbon build up on the backs side of the valves which can create a lean condition. Glad that you found the problem, now go run the hell out of it. :)

Great Info to know !
All I run in my car is Premium with a bottle of Techron once every few months.
Thanks Guys !

[jtward]

Originally Posted by LLC5

Actually, 87 octane fuel promotes less carbon build up than 92 octane fuels do which is the reason that premium fueled vehicles need to be de-carbonized more often than regular fueled vehicles. Carbon build up can be minimized by using a Top Tier fuel (no matter the octane rating, make sure it is a Top Tier fuel) with the BG44K and Techron that you mentioned. Top Tier fuel is a fuel formulation with enhanced cleaning capabilities in either of the octane ratings to help deter carbon build up, not necessarly a better fuel but cleaner for your injectors and engine internals including carbon build up on the backs side of the valves which can create a lean condition. Glad that you found the problem, now go run the hell out of it. :)

Yes indeed, From the moment I bought it I started to use Shell 93 or Exxon 93. I plan on using a can of BG44K with each fill-up for the next year. It just kind of yanks my chain that Nobody, Nobody ever opened the stupid owners manual and SEE were it says quote " DO NOT use any fuel with a ethanol content over 10% ethanol. And two lines later it says the engine needs to run on fuel that is 91 octane or higher to prevent engine damage.

And I know that Regular or 87 octane doesn't leave as much of a carbon, but it's a minor kick against the benefits of using premium fuel. Using higher octane like Mobil or Exxon or Shell that is all I use. There's a EXXON station about a 1/4 mile from my home. and the shop that does the work on my vehicle has always to Do Not use Sunoco. He swears it has way too much sulfur in it. After refilling it once early on when I only had it a few days I could smell the sulfur while doing a fill-up. I personally prefer Shell93 or Exxon 93.

[ToolGuy]

Originally Posted by jtward

It just kind of yanks my chain that [B]Nobody, Nobody ever opened the stupid owners manual and SEE were it says quote " DO NOT use any fuel with a ethanol content over 10% ethanol. And two lines later it says the engine needs to run on fuel that is 91 octane or higher to prevent engine damage.

Not reading the Owners Manuals in vehicles is SOOOO common its not even funny! People just plain don't do it! So much so, that some auto companies have made them available on CD that come with the vehicle, or by request now. I mean really, why print them if very few look at them!

A family member just asked me a question about their new Cruze. I said you know the answer is probably in your Owners Manual. They said oh, yeah.

[Fixvet]

Originally Posted by ToolGuy

Not reading the Owners Manuals in vehicles is SOOOO common its not even funny! People just plain don't do it! So much so, that some auto companies have made them available on CD that come with the vehicle, or by request now. I mean really, why print them if very few look at them!

A family member just asked me a question about their new Cruze. I said you know the answer is probably in your Owners Manual. They said oh, yeah.

I agree with you ToolGuy. I tell people "RTFM"!!

Whenever I buy a vehicle I read the OM cover to cover the first night. Just sayin'!
BTW...my vette is 14yrs old today!! 77k miles on the clock.

[ToolGuy]

Originally Posted by Fixvet

BTW...my vette is 14yrs old today!! 77k miles on the clock.

Cool, congrats!

Mine is pretty much 13 years old, but not sure of the actual date so it might be 14 years actually. My mileage is around 65,000. The time goes by so fast, even faster I guess when a person has to store their Vette during winter like me. One things for sure, I'm not getting rid of it any time soon, it's mine and I own it of course.